The third instalment of Ask Wolves sees Jeff Shi and the club’s senior management team discuss topics including the environment, fan ownership, global growth, matchday experience, kit and women’s team, with the full transcript available below.
Johnny Phillips: One of the issues that has cropped up is sustainability and the environmental side of running a club these days. Tom Rouse, Nicolas Andrews-Gauvain have asked, are there any plans to become more eco-friendly, carbon-neutral? Matt, any thoughts on that?
Matt Wild: I think we’re well on the way with that. For example, 90% of lighting at Compton and Molineux is now LED. We use 100%-renewable electricity. We’re in talks about having solar panels here on the roof at Compton and some of the stands at Molineux. So I think it’s part of a bigger sustainability programme, but we are conscious of it and we are being proactive in trying to implement ways of being more sustainable.
JP: There’s a lot of ways in which Fosun led the way during the pandemic, Jeff. Is this something that you feel in this country you could be a leader on – on the environmental side of the club, how to be carbon-neutral and looking at maybe the technologies that you can see?
Jeff Shi: Yes, I think around the remit of the club, we can do everything to help with that. For example, the lighting, the energy-saving, about everything we can do. But outside of that, we are still a football club, so I think the major job is the sports here. I’ve talked a lot with Will [Clowes], the head of the Foundation, and some jobs we will leave to them to do for us. But around the club, when we are running the club every day, we will plan a lot to save energy and try to help the environment. Sometimes it is not only about that. In some special cases, we are trying to help the community here. Like we have done some things in the pandemic. There is an emotional attachment from Fosun to Wolverhampton, the people here – we care about the people here. So if we can do anything to help, we will help. And also we are a little bit special because Fosun has a lot of things in the world, we have more resources to help. So I keep talking with the owners, and if there is any chance that we can leverage resources from the group, they will do that.
JP: Talking of the group, Russ, and Wolves’ place in the wider Fosun community, where is the global growth happening and what sort of structure are you looking at in that?
Russell Jones: I think there’s a number of parts to our global growth. First, it’s useful to understand where we’ve come from. So, three years ago, probably half a million followers on our social channels, very, very UK-based. And three years on, we’re now nearly 7 million followers across social channels in five different languages. And it’s really interesting when you look – I know Jeff said it earlier – so where do those fans come from and how do we engage them? So we have lots of really talented agencies that work for us around the world and they help us create content that resonates locally, that becomes authentic. And to your point, Johnny, are these people really Wolves fans? Yes, we genuinely believe that they are, because we aren’t just publishing English content and translating it to a different language, we are infiltrating that community, we’re building long-term relationships with fans. I’ve been lucky enough to go to a lot of these countries and last time I was in Mexico, I can tell you, anywhere you go with a Wolves top on, you’re getting a ‘Si Senor’ yelled back at you. I think I sent some pictures to Vinny because I was quite shocked when I went to the Club America game that outside the ground, they’ve got literally hundreds of tents selling kind of fake products. Every single one of these tents has got Wolves shirts. I wasn’t sure if that was good or bad! From a marketing perspective, it was great. From a retailing perspective, maybe not so.
Vinny Clark: I asked him to try to shut them down!
RJ: But what is great is that it just shows that there’s that real love for the club out there. In terms of commercial revenue, we know there’s a direct relationship between your fanbase and what you can drive commercially. So the bigger your fanbase, the bigger your opportunity, whether that’s in retail and licencing, whether that’s in partnership, sponsorship, because clearly you can give those partners and sponsors significantly more exposure, if your fanbase is bigger. So it’s my job to really get out there and help develop this fanbase. I think in the three years I’ve been here, we’ve seen our commercial revenue go from 7 million to 25 million. And while that’s good, that 25 million pales into insignificance compared to Man United, who are like 1,000 times more in terms of their commercial revenue, Tottenham 600% more in terms of their commercial revenue. So we’re on part one of our journey, but we’ve got a long way to go to really look at how do we tell bigger stories, better stories. One of the things we talk about in terms of the Fosun Group is the fact that they’ve got such a huge portfolio of companies across so many different industries. They do break them down into health, wealth and happiness, but it’s so diverse. And Jeff has very much encouraged the marketing and commercial teams to think entrepreneurially. So, for us, it’s not just about necessarily a football club, because I think if we only focused on us being a football club, then it’s going to be really hard to start to drive these revenues that these other football clubs do. So we’re now starting to develop our esports projects, we are starting to develop projects in motor racing, music, fashion, and so on. So, actually, if you imagine – and this is very different to football, this is very unique – we think of ourselves probably more of the Red Bull model than we do as a traditional football club. If you asked someone 20 years ago what Red Bull were, they would have told you a caffeinated drink that gives you wings. They’re now a $3billion sports and entertainment business with verticals in motor racing, extreme sports, a record label, a gaming company and that’s our vision. Our vision is to take Wolves global and build a brand and a fanbase and, off the back of it, a commercial revenue that can then support our football club to really push on.
JP: Tied in with that, Martin says he thinks that a Wolves 20/20 cricket team would be a good idea! It’s interesting what you say, though, because obviously a certain section of fans will wince at the idea you’re describing there, with brand very much at the front of it, but how can you relate that to the first-team? Will it have a direct impact on the first-team? The numbers that you mentioned before will filter into the first-team in terms of transfer revenue…
RJ: Yes, of course. The economics of a football club are relatively simple. It’s up to me and Vinny and all of our teams to drive as much commercial revenue as we can and it filters back into the team. Clearly we’ve got to work towards financial fair play, so it’s the only way to drive our business.
JS: It’s more about attention. You have to get attention from the world. Revenue and profit will come after that, but to do something important you have to make the people around the world know you, be aware of you. Only by Premier League football is not enough; you have to promote Wolves as a brand across the world. People can have many other chances to know you. If they start to know you, then you have a chance to get more revenue or to get a bigger fanbase. Now we’re at the first stage: we’re trying to get awareness from around the world. I think it’s night and day compared with five years ago. Five years ago, in China, there were maybe 100 fans. They knew Wolves maybe from some games, some mobile games. They knew Wolves, but they’d never heard of Wolves really. But now it’s night and day. So we will keep doing this. And in my view, it’s very important to find a way to let the people around the world know you – not only football fans, all people should find a way to know you. That is our job.
VC: And everything we do is ultimately to drive the success of the first-team. People can often see esports and that type of stuff as a distraction, and why are we doing that? We’re doing it because ultimately we want to make the organisation stronger, commercially and competitively. And that drives everything that we do.
JP: That point about distraction is a really good word because in that sense when fans look at – we talked about it before – the structure of the club, they will be thinking are Wolves taking their eye of the ball, but they’re very much not, are they, by what you’re saying there. It’s a wholly different department from Scott’s side and Nuno’s side?
RJ: Absolutely. We know we are in a competitive peer group, so when we go to market for partnerships, we’re going to be talking to the same types of companies as Everton, West Ham. We know that, so what we don’t want to have is the same proposition as them, which is the amazing Premier League, the world’s most-watched league, a product on the pitch which is pushing for Europa League, pushing for Champions League football. Again, it’s similar in a lot of ways to that peer group. So, actually, from our perspective, to be able to tell different stories, that when you partner with Wolves, you can actually now partner with a motor-racing team, you can partner with esports, you can partner with this, you can partner with that, it’s a really exciting proposition and it’s very, very different to every other football club.
VC: And that gives us a competitive edge ultimately, or will do longer term.
JP: Scott, Luke Fellows has asked whether or not signing more players from different parts of the world could make a difference. He particularly looks at Son at Spurs and the impact that’s had with his home nation. Is that too crude a way of looking at it? Would you entertain signing players simply because of where they are in the world.
Scott Sellars: I think having Fosun as owners we’ve had three or four Chinese players within the academy. One player was sold back to China. At the moment, Dongda [He], one of our young players, is on loan in Beijing. So I think, yeah, we would be stupid not to look at all the markets. As you said before, we’ve certainly looked around Europe, at Asian players particularly. It’s something we’re very much focused on with Brexit as well, looking all over Europe and looking all over the world and Asia and North America. So it’s certainly something we’d be stupid not to do.
JP: The kit is something a lot of fans have spoken about and why can’t we go back to an old gold Wolves top? Now, I think there’s confusion with this. I think certain fans have different opinions about what old gold is. Russ, what’s old gold, you’re a local?
RJ: Oh crikey, I know, I am. I’m a born-and-bred Wolves fan, as you know, Johnny. If you asked me what old gold was, I’d probably struggle to tell you. I can tell you what my favourite gold is and I can probably tell you what my son’s favourite gold is. And I can tell you what the Pantone references of our brand gold is. But I’m not sure I’d hold my hand on my heart and tell you what old gold is. From our perspective, it’s a case of what is the most popular gold colour that’s going to help drive the football club forward. And we believe that really vibrant, dynamic, bright gold under the floodlights just works.
JP: Well, that was the 50s team. It was under the floodlights and they had special satin shirts made to shine, and that certainly wasn’t old gold, but if you look into history and tradition, you should definitely look at that 50s side. Where do you stand on kit, Vinny? Are you a fan of playing around with them and different designs? Is this your domain?
VC: Yeah, absolutely. Before joining Wolves, I’m from a merchandising and product background, so kit is always very high on my agenda. You can’t play around too much with certain things – certain things are sacred. Home kit colours are traditionally very well respected, whereas we like to think we can potentially be a bit more creative, and experimental on, maybe, a third kit. We’ve had great success over the last couple of years with our Mexican and Portuguese-inspired third kits, for example, which you’ve got more of a creative licence with. It’s less emotive on a third kit. So we try to always find that balance on product between respecting the heritage and the history of the club, but also trying to modernise and move with the times and the trends that are in the market at the moment.
JP: How much can you say about the next kit deal and where Wolves will be going?
VC: I think I’m safe to say that this is going out after that announcement, so yes, we’ve signed a kit deal with Castore, who are a British premium sportswear brand. That’s been sort of ongoing for what feels like forever now, but it’s a massive deal for the club. It’s the biggest technical partnership that we’ve ever done by some distance. And, interestingly, it’s a unique partnership model, in the fact that it breaks away from the traditional model clubs have with the usual suspects, you know your Adidas, your Nikes, your Pumas of this world. And by that I mean, Castore, in our new partnership, will be making our premium product for our athletes, our coaches, our players, but on the retail side, the club are going to be manufacturing the product themselves. And we’re working very closely with Castore to make sure that all of the relevant approvals are gained. And it’s a hugely profitable deal for us from a sponsorship and a product perspective. But what it does, is it gives us the flexibility that now we have that control over the supply chain, we’re not over-risking ourselves on inventory, we’re driving our cost price down because there isn’t a middleman involved and we’re able to pass that on to the fans. I know we talked earlier, on the ticketing side, about fairness and being reasonable, and kit is something that we can be under where our peers are because of this new deal that we’ve done. And where, next year, you’ll see kits in the Premier League around £65-70, we are still going to be £55 for our replica jerseys, so it’s a great deal. It also gives us the ability to have bespoke products. I know from many bits of feedback that we’ve had that fans get frustrated that we have the same gear as many other teams do, and that’s a constant source of frustration. Everything that we’re going to wear next year is completely exclusive to Wolves and there’s nobody in the world that’s going to be wearing the same stuff, so it’s a massive deal for us for many reasons – the commercial benefits, the fan benefits are going to be there for all to see. And one interesting thing that I’m really keen to be bringing in is that we’re going to have a range of women’s replica products next year, which we’ve not had in recent years, so another massive plus for us there. So it’s a great deal and we’re really excited about it.
RJ: On that one, it’s worth noting that, obviously, when we went through the conversations with potential kit partners, everyone came to the table and that’s exciting for us because it says a lot about the club and where the club are going, and the fact that everyone wants to sit at the table and have a conversation with you about being your kit partner. And our narrative internally is all about being the challenger club, for challenger brands, so it was important for us to find a partner that actually was going to dare to be different, was going to shake up the market a little bit. And also as part of their commitment to us, as Vinny says, commercially, it’s so far superior to anything the club has had in the past, but also there’s an allowance a budget allowance, from a marketing perspective, to go and work together to tell our stories in new geographic markets together. So there’s a real, very much a true partnership opportunity.
VC: And the other thing, we talked a little bit about global fanbases and being able to activate certain markets. Not just us, but clubs historically have struggled to activate markets quickly. So, the way that brands work, they’re cumbersome oil tankers of machines, they’re not agile, they’re not nimble. Because we are manufacturing the replica products ourselves, it means we can really get product into Mexico. We’ve got emerging markets in North Africa. Obviously we’ve got our colleagues in China, who have the Wolves megastore out there and some marketplaces out there. If we were to sign a player that opens up a new market, a Brazil or an Argentina, overnight for us, it won’t now take us two or three years to be able to turn that around and get product and activate that market. We can do that instantly now because of the new deal and the new model that’s in place, so that’s a massive benefit for us as well.
JP: There’s one big ethical debate when it comes to the shirt and that’s obviously the sponsor and Wolves have a gambling sponsor. Given the problems gambling can cause in communities, where do you sit as a club in having a gambling sponsor on the shirts.
RJ: I think we believe that gambling and football, a little bit like alcohol, they’re a part of the game. We would always encourage responsible gambling at all times. But I think it’s also fair to say that ManBetX have been a fantastic partner to the football club. We go to the market, we talk to hundreds of companies every single year, and commercially, by some considerable distance, ManBetX is the best deal on the table. And obviously they’ve been our partner for two years and they’ve been a fantastic partner to the football club. So, from our perspective, we’re really happy with that relationship.
JP: Do you understand, Jeff, that there will always be some fans that quite rightly point to the problems of gambling and see it as an issue?
JS: I think it’s an issue for the government, it’s not an issue for us. I think if it’s legal in the UK, if society and community and the government think it’s the right thing to do, for me, our view is just to follow the law, the legality and follow the government. If it’s okay in the UK, I think there is a proper reason here, and it will exist. Also for the competition, if other clubs can do this, if we don’t do this, then it’s a disadvantage for us. Personally, I have no positives or negatives about which partner will be a good partner. From a legal perspective, they’re all good partners to myself. So I hope that answers your question.
JP: Yeah, it does, but, Vinny, do you understand that there will be people that won’t buy the shirt because of the sponsor?
VC: Yeah, and we do get that feedback. But ultimately the sponsorship – the front shirt sponsorship – is one of the key revenue drivers of the club. And they have been a great partner and they’ve stepped up and they’ve delivered on all of their obligations. And we would support them as they support us in partnership, really.
JP: I want to talk about the matchday situation in general. Pardeep Garcha, Jeff, has talked about the absence of a four-star hotel in the city and whether it negates the corporate hospitality offering of Wolves as a whole in terms of that weekend experience.
JS: It’s not only about the hotels, it’s about everything. I think as a new citizen here in the city – five years already – think we need more restaurants with better Chinese food!
JP: But where can Fosun help with that?
JS: I don’t know. It’s not our job, sorry. Of course we need a five-star hotel, but we can do something to help the government, because if Wolves can be a top club in the future, we will attract more and more tourists to come to the city and I think demand will grow. So then eventually the market will have the capacity to have some new hotels and some new restaurants. I often go to Cambridge or to Oxford and I can find really good restaurants there because there are the students there. So eventually I hope one day with the help of Wolves we can attract more and more tourists, new citizens like me and foreigners to come and then Wolverhampton can be more globalised, then we can have more restaurants, more hotels. That’s my personal hope. But I don’t think it’s my job, sorry.
JP: We’ll only hold you responsible for so much. Ian Groom has sent in a question. It’s a very lengthy question, Russ, about his ideas for pre-match, half-time and post-match entertainment. He’s come out with a whole plethora of ideas about a Molineux TV, essentially looking for a big outside broadcast to supplement what’s going on on the pitch. Where do you stand with what you can do on a matchday?
RJ: Well, we’ve obviously tried to do what we can behind closed doors, so Matchday Live is a product that has been really, really successful. You’re talking about four/five times the views that we would traditionally get from an audio broadcast, so I don’t see any reason why we wouldn’t look to continue that. Funnily enough, I spoke to Lynsey Hooper who did some work for us as a pitchside presenter during the Europa League games and one of her suggestions was to utilise the screens a little bit more, rather than on-pitch talent, and I think she’s got a point, so we’re always looking to beef up our media product. I’m there; it’s something that we’re really, really keen to do.
JP: I’m going to stay with you, Russ. Ian Davies is a big fan of the programme and a lot of clubs have gone off the programme and headed down the digital route, but I know many fans enjoy the programme. What’s the future for the actual physical programme?
RJ: This year, we’ve had three! Ultimately, we’ve had three types of programme. Again we were conscious of trying to service everyone. So we’ve got an audio programme, so you can actually literally listen to the programme. We’ve got a digital programme. And we’ve also still remained doing the print of the physical programme. I think whilst it’s profitable – and we really believe in the product, we believe it’s a really good product – it is still profitable, so we will continue to run it. I think those days when it becomes unprofitable because perhaps it’s run its course, then obviously we’d have to look at it again. But as it stands at the moment, it’s a project we’re really proud of and we’ve no intention to stop it right now.
JP: That’s good, because it’s a great programme and I know a lot of fans think that as well. Tom Woolley isn’t a fan of the fan park though. He’s said it’s congested and poorly arranged. Any work going to take place there?
RJ: You know what, that’s the first time I’ve heard negative feedback about the fan park. I think the fact it’s congested, from my perspective, is good news. If there was no one there, then I’d be a bit more concerned. First and foremost, if it’s congested, that means it’s popular. So that’s a great start. And also it’s a good start in terms of us developing and improving it. Is it perfect? No. However, it’s gone from nothing to congested. It’s something we believe in. It’s part of the match experience. It’s a free addition to your matchday, both pre- and post-matchday. It’s something we’ll definitely continue to do. I’m happy to speak to him to get his feedback about how we can improve it.
VC: And what we’ve done previously is a bit of a proof of concept. We’ve put a bit of music in and a burger and a bit of merchandise, and we’ve seen that it’s popular and it works. I think we just build from there now.
JP: Jeff, a question here from Ryan about cryptocurrency. Can you see the day when you accept cryptocurrency as payment for tickets. I don’t know if you saw Elon Musk tweeting about bitcoin recently and it virtually tanked the market. Where do you stand on that?
JS: Personally, I will support that if the country allows that. If the country allows that it means the new thing will not hurt the financial system in the country. So, for example in China, it’s not legal, but here it’s OK, so it depends on the regulations of each country. So if it’s allowed here in the UK, I’m not against that, but globally I think it’s still a slow process to accept that from the governments around the world. So It will take a long time to be a global currency. I don’t think it will happen very soon. But in some countries we can do that.
JP: What about the internet at the ground? Claire Elliott said internet upgrades were promised a while ago and haven’t happened.
RJ: So we’ve done some internet upgrades. If you’re within the concourses, you can access Wi-Fi for the Wolves app. I think the next stage for us then is definitely taking that into the stadium. It is a significant investment. However, we do believe there is a place for it. And we’ve talked again before, well, what does that look like? Well, it enables us to do video replays from your seat. It enables you to order food and beverage from your seat. So there’s lots of benefits to it, and I think it’s something as a group, we’re committed to, so watch this space on that one.
VC: And if we’re being fair, when we talked earlier about value and about ticket prices, that’s something I would expect to be as standard, as being a good service within the ground for what you’re paying your money for. I think, as Russ said, that’s something we’re keen to do.
JP: Is that a good point you make about the fact that when you charge the prices you’re charging, you’re going to be held to account for what comes with the ticket?
VC: We’ve got to get the product right, not just in general-admission ticketing but across the board. What we charge we build up to suit the product we are servicing. And we always want to have tiering of product as well. So we want entry-level, accessible products, but we want higher-end, premium products as well. And everything on that value chain should be befitting of its price.
RJ: It’s the entire live experience, isn’t it? So the congested fan park right through to the DJs, the fireworks, the lights. We’re putting on a show and we have to deliver great value.
JP: We can’t leave this roundtable without talking about the women’s team, which has made great strides and generated a lot of publicity, really positively, for the club, and the club has covered them brilliantly. Scott, any plans long term for the women’s team?
SS: We’ve been talking a lot, myself and Jeff, and with Will from the foundation about the women’s team moving forward. I think we certainly want to put in some strong foundations. I think there’s certainly interest. I think over the last two or three years, we’ve taken away paying to play, which was the first step. The girls now train – and they were before Covid – training here. The RTC, which is the girls’ academy, also started to train here and then with Covid couldn’t. Now they’re back and they’re playing games here at the weekend. I think from my point of view, in my role, I want to have an academy here for both boys and girls. That’s the target from our point of view. And I think from that we can really put some strong foundations in from which we can grow and then let’s see where it goes. Hopefully, promotion, and that’s something we’ve applied for through the FA. Then from there we will really start to build a club. Jeff’s keen on increasing participation. He wants the same opportunity for girls in Wolverhampton as for boys, or in the Midlands. We are trying to make it a place that young girls want to come and train and to play and get the opportunity.
JP: Jeff, is it more than just a women’s team? Are you looking past that?
JS: I think you have two options. The first option is like maybe Chelsea or Man United – they are pursuing glory, trophies for the women’s team. But we are not doing it that way, because I do not think there is really a commercial market there. But I am very keen to encourage the girls here in Wolverhampton to have the same chance of playing football as the boys. So we will open the Academy to them, for every age group. They will share the same chance to enjoy the facilities here, to play on the pitch here, to have the education from the coaches here. And we will share the same objective with them. In future if they can play for Wolves, or even if they move to Chelsea or other big clubs, then we have done our job, helped them to have a good career. So that’s our major view on the women’s team here. The focus for the next five years will be more about young girls and how can we help them to get a chance. Because maybe we have many talented girls here, but maybe they’ve never had a chance to have the training at a young age, so we can provide that. We don’t want to have any disparity between girls and boys.
JP: That’s fantastic. Just to wrap things up, it’s been an incredibly difficult, challenging and unique year. What are your hopes just going forward in the short term?
MW: I think the fact that we’re still standing after this season is an achievement! As I said, I think if we can reset, have a good pre-season. I’m a football man; I go back to our experience in the Europa League and it would be great to be challenging again next season for a European spot. It’s going to be tough, because this season we’ve got the likes of Everton West Ham, Leeds, Villa all trying to do the same. So I don’t think we can underestimate that. It’s going to be tough again next season. But I still think we’ve got the squad that can do it. And I know that we’ll improve it in the summer. And I think that we will hopefully be there or thereabouts again. We’ll have key players coming back and I think it’s a great opportunity.
SS: I think we must look back at the journey we’ve had really. If I look at my five, nearly six years at the club, where we were, where we are now, I think we’ve got a lot to be proud of. And I’m very proud of what everyone at the football club has done in that time. And I think that we are looking to progress again. This season has been disappointing by the previous years’ standards, but I think we are still very proud of what everybody has done in a very difficult period. And I’m sure we’ll be pushing again next season.
JP: Yes, it’s interesting to say it’s been disappointing, but it’s only been disappointing by previous years. Taken in isolation it’s a decent season, isn’t it?
VC: Yeah it is. I think someone mentioned to me that it’s the third highest finish in 40 years that the club’s had and a lot of people are looking back with disappointment. I think that just shows really how far as a club we’ve come. And in terms of my expectations and my hopes, professionally, I hope the new partners who’ve come on board get off to a great start, the teams are focused on building excellent products and our trading strategies continue and I’m really hopeful that we can hit our targets as we get back into a more business-as-usual year. But, personally, I just want to see Molineux packed to the rafters again, because when it’s full, there’s no stadium in the UK like it. And I hope we can get there sooner rather than later.
JP: Russ, have you missed the overseas travel and everything that comes with the job?
RJ: I have. Obviously they’re always fun trips. I spend a lot of time in China, a lot of time in the US. We had a fantastic pre-season tour organised, crikey, I’m going back two summers now, which unfortunately didn’t happen because of Covid. But we’ve got all that to come, and I think that’s the exciting thing. I think there’s about three or four projects that are in the pipeline that we’ll be announcing, which are massively exciting in terms of growing our fanbase internationally, and, at the right time, touring, pre-season, there’s so much to look forward to.
JP: Jeff, would you acknowledge that it is forward looking that we should be concentrating on?
JS: Yes, it’s five years now. I still remember vividly the day I came here the first time. I still remember the welcome from the fans. Actually, I think the club has grown a lot in the last five years. So for the next five years, I think it’s more about strengthening the whole club, not only about the first 11. Maybe in the last five years it was more about the first-team getting promotion and to stay up in the league, go to the Europa League, but in the long-term view, it’s always about the competition between clubs, about the whole structure and whether the whole structure is solid enough, and about the Academy and the commercial strengths, about the fanbase, about all the people here, whether they’re better than the people at the other clubs. So that’s the focus. So what I’m thinking is not only about the next season, it’s about how to make the club a better club, a better-run club, and also a top club regarding the management efficiency, or the growth, or the financial capacity. I think about all of them. I believe, in the long-term view, when you talk about a better club comprehensively, across everything, they will prevail. If you only sort out the first 11, maybe they can bring you a good season for one or two seasons, but it will not last. So that’s my job for the next five years. So if you think about 10-year plans, I think there will be a different tone between the first five years and the next five. I hope after the next five years, when I’m reaching 50 years old, I can say Wolves is really a top club not only about the performance on the pitch about, about everything inside the club.