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Fans' Parliament Minutes

Posted on: Wed 24 Feb 2010

Wolves' Fans Parliament members were last night informed of the healthy financial picture at Molineux as they were once more given the first look at the club's accounts.

The meeting was told by Chief Executive Jez Moxey that Wolves were in a 'strong' financial position despite the £4.9m loss officially disclosed when the audited accounts weremade public at 10.30am today.

The deficit covers Steve Morgan's first full financial year (up to May 31, 2009) and follows a £4.1m loss in the previous 12 months. Click HERE to read the full club statement on the figures.

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To a question from Les Hughes about how the outlook could be described as rosy after a near-£5m loss, Jez said: "You can never look at the accounts in one year in isolation and get a fair view. You have to look over three or four years. The purpose of having Steve Morgan buy the club with the right level of investment was crucial. But you can't spend a lot of money buying new players, achieve the stated aim of promotion as champions and not incur losses in that season. However, having secured promotion we will make significant profits this current financial year as a Premier League club. The key is to stay there."

"Furthermore, we're one of three clubs, I believe, who don't carry debt. And a newspaper report recently put us as the most financially sound club in the country. Ask Portsmouth fans now whether they would rather have had their FA Cup success coupled with their time in the Premier League and the problems they have at present, or neither. Listening to them, I think I know the answer, they would rather want to be like us."

James Fielden enquired as to whether any of the losses were down to bonuses for reaching the Premier League and was told by the club's Financial Controller Rita Purewal: "Yes. There were costs to us getting promoted which are fairly significant - costs relating to players, agents, clubs and management. But, to a question from Roger Fellows about whether there was a statistics league table of clubs rated by solvency, she said: "No. Deloittes issue an annual review of the industry but not on that basis."

Jez said Wolves had an average attendance equating to something like 96% of the ground capacity - seventh highest in the division. But he was questioned by Richard Harries on where the money for planned stadium redevelopment would come from. He replied: "We have cash in the bank to invest in the team and in the stadium but it's hard task to square the financial equation of an ambitious club like ours. We want a decent team and that costs money and we want to improve Molineux and that's also expensive and so we have to be prudent. It's difficult to borrow money at the moment and we'd have to do that to rebuild the stadium. But we don't want to sit here and say we're happy with the status quo. We must make grow the business and more profit. Just like Sir Jack, the owner (Steve Morgan) won't take a penny out of Wolves. Unlike some club owners, he's not looking to take out any money through dividends based on profit or any other way. He is the one who's funding the club and running one consistently successfully is the most difficult business challenge in this country, bar none. Our cost base needs to be controlled and our income needs increase, so we need to stay in the Premier League and continue to work hard. That's how we're going to fund it."

With football's well-documented money troubles in mind, Peter Bagley asked if the game might go the way of rugby league, with clubs allowed to spend only a certain proportion of their income? Jez replied: "I hope that rather than enforced central regulation, common sense and good governance will be the order of the day. If theauthorities did put limits on clubs based on a percentage of turnover, you'll never see a Wolves able to compete with the big four or even Aston Villa because they are so far ahead right now. We'd never catch up because we'd be restricted to an amount so much lower than our competitors and it would be intolerable. Chelsea were heading for administration before Abramovich arrived and that's one of the dynamics that makes our game so popular. If we artificially restrict it, we'll have the status quo for ever and a day."

Dave Bissell said: "What about the American system where all clubs spend the same amount. Jez replied: "That's different because there's a franchise systemand unlike football they don't compete in other countries - in football we have European competition as well as domestic. In Europe, Barcelona and Real Madrid are able to sell their own TV rights - and Manchester United would never settle for being unable to spend enough to compete with them."

John Meaney made the point that it might be a risk to develop the stadium because watching games was 'not a cheap hobby any more' and we're not really selling out at the moment. He was told by the Chief Exec: "That question goes round my mind constantly. How big is our supporter base? How can we get to say35,000 gates in terms of making the football attractive enough? Improvements in supporter facilities, like catering, better views and seats and a better atmosphere, are also important. Steve Morgan says we must create the best possible atmosphere here, so the stands will be brought much close to the pitch when we do re-develop. To redevelop, it will require a stand being taken away and it will take at least 12 months to rebuild the facility. So, when we press the button, we'll see a significant drop in capacity for a while. That's the business we're in. Clubs can get promoted or get relegated and the gap between the Premier League and Championship is the biggest in football." John Meaney followed up by reminding members and the club officials in attendance that Wolves averaged only 24,000 in their title-winning season - a point he said reinforced the risk factor. Jez said the club hadn't submitted a planning application yet. The procedure, he continued, was to draw up the right design first, then get it approved and finally see the plans through when the finance was in place. "Behind the scenes, we're getting closer to the preferred design," he added.

Chris Cox asked what the significance was in Steve Morgan and his company buying land near the ground. Jez replied: "It's being done for the benefit of the club." And Matt Grayson added: "Property doesn't necessarily become available when you need it. You buy it when it is available and it's yours then for when you can develop it. Grab it while you can."

The subject of city regeneration was raised by Jez saying: "We're trying to help that process, so buying prime real estate seemed a good opportunity." And Kulbinder Kular was told that the idea mooted by an architect in the Express & Star about linking Molineux to the city centre through a bridge or similar access route was another potential area of overall redevelopment. Jez said it might not only be a club issue as the University were big players in the area as well.

Jez told Rod Palmer that he didn't think there would ever be a Premier One and Premier Two and Parliament Chairman Matt Grayson said the gap in today's league wasn't that much bigger in terms of domination by a few than it was ten or 20 years ago. But James Rogers said he felt the ten changes Mick McCarthy made at Old Trafford showed there already were two Premier 'divisions'.

James Fielden asked how the current financial year was likely to compare with the club's last time in the top flight and was told by Rita Purewal: "Much better because the three-year TV deal is much better." To Peter Bagley's question about parachute payments, Rita said: "They will continue in the new TV agreement but a 'solidarity payment' came in during 2007 and that has helped the rest of the Championship clubs. It is for those clubs who didn't get a parachute payment. But the amount varies and is based on how many relegated clubs bounce back in a three year period." Matt Grayson pointed out that if Newcastle and Albion go straight back up this season, there would be more parachute money to be shared round.

Rita told Chris Cox that Premier League money was still spread across three tranches - payable in August, January and May. And Jez said it added up to 'significant' money. Rita concluded by explaining that all Wolves' player acquisitions were made with cash (but not traditionally up front) rather than loans or HP agreements.

MATTERS ARISING

Matt Grayson reminded members that Roger Fellows had asked at an earlier meeting whether there had been a contract change between Wolves and Radio WM because he felt live commentary on many away games had been switched by the station to digital - a service many fans didn't have or which left them without a good enough signal. Matt told the meeting: "I spoke to BBC WM and they said Villa commentaries had been done on FM 12 times and we had been on 11 times at the time of the last Fans' Parliament meeting." Les Hughes said he felt that, if Wolves have been on WM 11 times, the digital option was a bonus. Matt said fans were generally getting a very good choice as all games were live on Beacon and Wolves' games had been commentary matches on Five Live on a number ofoccasions. Chris Cox said he couldn't pick up Beacon or digital in Northamptonshire and was reminded by Matt that the facility was available for a subscription through Wolves Player. Martyn Edwards said: "Digital isn't yet at full capacity - the signal will become better from next year." Matt promised to feed the various views back to WM.

At the previous meeting, Wilf Hadley asked why Jez's q and a column had not always featured in the programme and was told then that the club were committed to bringing it back on demand. Matt said it had since been reintroduced so the matter had been 'actioned'. Also, Richard Harries' previous request for an upgrading of the TVs in the Terrace Bar had led to replacement sets being ordered.

FOOTBALL REVIEW

Kulbinder Kular asked if Mick McCarthy or the club had a formal facility to mark a referee's performance and was told by Jez: "Yes. There's also a refs' assessor in the stand and we do see Keith Hackett and the Refs Association taking action against those who under-perform."

Peter Bagley said he couldn't complain at the level of the club's spending on players for the Premier League but said: "The signings certainly haven't improved us. It had been a long time since I was disgruntled but that Palace game was an absolute disgrace." And he felt it was alarming that a strong Wolves team had been well beaten by a young Villa side in a reserve fixture.

Dave Bissell said he felt there was a negativity creeping in, defeatist talk from inside the club. "On the pitch as well, we're more defensive and, for five or six games until recently, we looked like we were going out to not lose rather than to try to win." Chris Cox added: "Fans were very unhappy at Hull because we had six defenders. We only started to attack late on and people came away very disappointed." Dave Bissell said the replacement of Christophe Berra in the home game against Manchester City with another defender was a further disappointment. "Have a go," he argued. "Don't think about damage limitation." Jez Moxey reminded him: "Goal difference could be key." Chris Cox felt there had been a lot more attacking impetus since Adlene Guedioura had gone into the side as an attacking midfielder.

Kulbinder Kular asked how far the recent attempt to re-sign Robbie Keane on loan had gone and said it was a 'positive' that the club had tried. Jez replied: "We made an enquiry and were given some encouragement by Spurs but there would be a really large loan fee and a large wage. It soon ran aground, though, when the player made it clear he was heading somewhere else."

Roger Fellows asked how long the fine arising from the Manchester United game was suspended for. Jez said: "We're seeking clarification. It didn't seem sensible prolonging the issue by appealing because there could have been a more severe punishment had it gone to an independent commission."

With player-resting in mind, Mark Cadman asked if anyone had checked Frank Lampard's temperature on Saturday when he was reported to have missed Chelsea's game at Wolves through illness. "Clubs are going to hide behind excuses like viruses," he said. James Fielden said it would be a good idea to have Mick McCarthy present at the end-of-season Parliament meeting but Dave Bezzina disagreed, countering: "We're never in a position to know what goes on at the training ground, who's performing well or what the dynamics of the squad are. It shouldn't be one of the main roles of the Parliament to impact on team matters." In answer to an enquiry, Jez said Adlene Guedioura had been found by the club's talent-spotters Ian Evans and Dave Bowman getting out into different places in Europe. Dave Bissell said: "It's really refreshing to see a player who isn't fazed by taking opponents on."

On the subject of the December game at Old Trafford, Chris Cox said: "There's a depth of feeling that fans had never felt as alienated and unwanted by the club as they did that night. One guy I know has held an away season ticket for 15 years, seen almost every game in that time and says he won't take it up next time because of what happened there. For some people, it hasn't gone away." Jez asked: "Would you feel better if we had put a different team out at United, still got beaten as easily could have been the case, had an injury to someone like Kevin Doyle, our research showed they were tired after the Spurs match, and then dropped points against Burnley?" Chris said: "We went to Old Trafford on the crest of a wave thinking we had a chance of getting something and we had the rug pulled from under us." Jez reassured him the team selection was made in the best interests of the club and therefore the supporters also. "Mick has to manage his playing assets carefully, he put out the team that he thought was best suited for that particular game and he has to have right to deploy his squad as he sees fit, he wants to remain in the Premier League first and foremost" he added. Terry Brearley concluded: "If we do survive - and I think we will - how much will we worry about the team at Man United? The time to judge football decisions is at the end of the season."

Amid recent criticism of the manager, Dave Bezzina pointed out: "Remember where we were three years ago, at rock bottom. Look where Mick McCarthy has got us to. We must bear that in mind." Jez said: "I'm staggered more fans don't take that view, Mick has led us back to the Premier League after winning our first title in 20 years." Roger Fellows added: "We should be more positive as a Parliament."

TICKETING

Matt Grayson reminded members that early-bird prices for next season were frozen for those renewing on-line while there was a small increase for those renewing by post or phone. Chris Cox, who had vociferously argued at a special interim meeting last month for charges to be pegged, thanked the club for listening to fans' views - a gesture 'appreciated by everyone.'

Mark Cadman said it had been very easy to renew on-line - a view repeated by others. One or two members said they had forgotten their passwords for logging in, so Head of Ticketing and Membership Lynne O'Reardon was keen to know how long they were being made to wait for reminders. James Fielden said people were still surprised there was no young adult ticket, a point Jez Moxey countered by saying: "Our position is well stated. We have had this aspect of the pricing in place for so long that it would be inherently unfair to reintroduce it. What about the people who have had to suffer it so far?" Roger Fellows said the renewal time seemed to be shorter this time but Lynne confirmed it was the same as usual. Matt Grayson said the deadline of March 12 (5pm) had been publicised in all the usual places. Mike Taylor said he had been asked to point out that not all elderly fans had Internet access for on-line renewals, so couldn't something be done for them? Matt said there was now a 'silver surfer' Internet breed while others had relatives, friend or carers who could help them. To back up his point, he said there had been only ten complaints about the on-line issue out of 20,500 season ticket holders sent early bird details.

To a question from Darren Cash, Lynne said there would be a form-filling requirement for disabled season ticket holders but it wouldn't (have to) be by email. Chris Cox said he thought the club should stress that they have a credit card offering interest-free payment opportunities.

Kulbinder Kular asked if fans could switch to available seats for the rest of the season and was told by Lynne: "Yes and there's only a price rise if it means moving to a more expensive part of the ground." Lynne also raised the subject of name transfers on season tickets and said the club hadn't so far felt able to grant early bird benefits to the new holders. Richard Harries said fans would pass tickets on anyway but Jez said: "We don't want non season ticket holders to have the benefit. They have to earn the right to be an early bird." The Chief Executive asked if Parliament members thought it would be acceptable to charge an administration fee of £20-25 to cover the transfer. Lynne told John Pike that the issue concerned a significant number of supporters. Chris Cox suggested that, if a charge was imposed, the practice would be driven further underground. Dave Bezzina said he thought a reasonable admin fee would be acceptable. Mark Cadman said there was a danger if fans who weren't the registered holder caused trouble at games. And Jez said a season ticket might be handed over to a friend or family member by someone who then tries unsuccessfully to get it back.We might have a waiting list for season tickets in the not too distant future, it might also become a problem at that point.

Dave Bissell asked if one-night-a-week late opening at the club shop and ticket office might be considered. Jez said the on-line purchasing arrangements were in place but said that the club would think about it. John Meaney pointed out that betting slips and pens at the sportingbet.com outlets in the Steve Bull Stand were in short supply - something else the club said it would investigate.

Darren Cash enquired as to whether a ticket collection point could be set up for non-match days as he had visited Molineux during half-term to see the Championship trophy in the dressing room and had had to wait 45 minutes at a window for a handover that had taken ten seconds. Lynne said it had been a late decision to 'ticket' that event and so avoid the prospect of a lot of supporters turning up at the same time. Matt said the fans' chance to view the trophy before it goes back was laid on in addition to the silverware being taken to schools and various community events.

Tony Shillcock complimented the Ticket Office on its efficiency and diligence after he had accidentally torn out and handed over two vouchers from his season ticket book at one match. He said he might otherwise have been unable to attend the Liverpool game at Molineux. Jez said it was just another example of the club and its staff trying to give fans the best possible service.

Martyn Edwards said he and a woman who sits near him in the Family Enclosure had each wanted to take along another child and had tried to buy a nearby seat that was always spare. Lynne said it had to be a seat held by a season ticket holder who didn't turn up and said around 640 season ticket holders hadn't shown up at the Chelsea game on Saturday.

Lynne was surprised to hear Gerry Collins say that a fan he knew had not been reminded of the new arrangements regarding more limited match-day use of the lift in the Billy Wright Stand. She said the relevant correspondence had gone out last week. Jez Moxey said the club preferred those fans who needed to use the lift to get to and from their seats to relocate elsewhere in the stadium but said that existing lift pass holders could still take the lift up before matches but not use it on the way down afterwards. This is because of health and safety issues.

Matt Grayson told the meeting that the Parliament was four years old this summer and the club was proposing that those who had sat on it since the start would not be eligible to remain next season at the expense of others who wished to join. Those who were elected two years ago would be okay to seek re-election. Another session is planned for before the end of the season.

Peter Bagley said he thought there should be a time limit on some discussion points and felt that long-winded debate on issues like the quality of referees was a case of the Parliament losing its way. Jez said there had been a shortage of agenda items from fans beforehand.

Anne Pearce said there was still a big problem at the front of the Stan Cullis Stand with people congregating 'three deep' in front of wheelchair-bound fans before games. She considered it dangerous as well as being an obstruction and said stewards continued to do nothing about it. Matt Grayson agreed to look into it again.

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